Good Date VS Good Man
I’ve been steadily comparing my 2 eHarmony dates over the last week (more scheduled for this week- stay tuned). The first one was a great date, the second was a good guy. By good date, I mean that the location was perfect, he wore the right clothes and acted in the most gentlemanly and chivalrous way. By good guy, I mean that he was down-to-earth, liked my stories and seemed just plain old nice.
I’m wondering if it’s possible to have both in the same guy?
I was watching Mad Men last night, and Don Draper took some girl out on a date, and he was the perfect date. But the guy is an asshole (yes, I realize he his fictional). This got me to thinking about what it is that makes a guy know how to have a great date.
I’m not sure if it’s upbringing…I’m not a parent, but I don’t believe children are forced to hear lectures on how to treat someone on the first date these days. So that leaves experience. Does a man who is great at dates date a lot? Is it because he’s a great salesman, and has been groomed to act as though he knows how to treat a lady?
This is all relevant because in my weekend freak out about how afraid of commitment I am, I was discussing with a friend the importance of being treated like a lady. One of the best things about my life is that I do get to date a lot, and I love going to nice restaurants, having my jacket taken from me, my chair pulled out for me…all that stuff. One guy I whom I’ve known for over 5 years STILL opens the car door for me every time we go out. I love that shit. In describing to my friend how I envision my life over the next 10 years, I explained that I hoped for Saturday nights out trying new restaurants in heels and black dresses. Are there good, down-to-earth men that will laugh at my stories AND put their jackets over puddles so I don’t ruin my shoes? Does the hybrid of Don Draper and The Guy Next Door exist?
Your matches are waiting for you—eHarmony
July 26th, 2010 at 9:40 am
Hey, I still do most of that gentlemanly stuff. Standing up, opening doors, etc. And always pay on dates, @ least until we’re in a relationship.
I don’t know about ruining my jacket by putting it over a puddle, though. I expect my women to pay attention to where they’re walking, and just walk around the puddle on their own.
July 26th, 2010 at 9:51 am
Well you just said your male friend of over 5 years still does ;)
July 26th, 2010 at 9:53 am
JR- would you stop being a gentleman once you’re in a relationship, or just paying? I don’t expect the man to pay once in a relationship, but I don’t understand why the gentlemanly stuff needs to stop.
Doll, I can’t go there with that guy. Trust me. I’ve tried. For 5 years.
July 26th, 2010 at 10:11 am
@Darcie, I was speaking specifically about always paying, not the gentlemanly stuff (which never goes away). I mean, it’s always nice if a woman offers to pay, or help pay, on date (which is something I keep in mind when determining if I’ll ask her out again), but I think the man should pay. And I definitely never understood the concept of “dutch” dates, that just sounds so cheap. That’s not a date, that’s two people hanging out.
Once you’re in a relationship, it’s a little different, since you’re now going out together more often, on a regular basis, then you can start switching back and forth, or splitting checks or whatever (say you go to the movies, one pays for the tickets, the other pays for the snacks, etc.), but not in the beginning.
July 26th, 2010 at 10:44 am
I don’t understand why a guy would pay for a girl ALL THE TIME he’s not having sex with ,
especially for 5 years.
Maybe he just wants to be having sex with the girl, and thinks paying for her forever
will win her over eventually.
PS. Don Draper is the alpha man, Guy next door is the Beta Man…
The hybrid is the Omega Man, ruler of the universe…the guy that bounces his babies off
his knees while conquering a country.
July 26th, 2010 at 12:10 pm
I always pay when I ask a woman out (& JR is correct that always always nice when a woman offers to pay, she gets extra points for that). I assume I’d expect a woman to pay if she asks me out, but I would likewise offer to contribute if the date is going well. Except I’ve never actually been asked out by a woman, so I can’t say for sure.
July 26th, 2010 at 12:21 pm
on second glance…this article is structured intelligently.
I should put you to work in an advertising department :)
July 26th, 2010 at 2:43 pm
Where’s Teenwolf?
July 26th, 2010 at 2:57 pm
I think I’d like to know a bit more about how this eharmony thing works. You say you have more dates this week, one is a 2nd date with the guy from last week, but how many others do you have planned? And how do you pick them? What is one their profiles that made you want to get to know them? Have they all contacted you, or you contacted them first?
You know, just in case I ever get desparate enough to try online dating, at some point in the future, I’d like some tips. :)
July 26th, 2010 at 3:47 pm
I agree about the paying. First date should be the man, after that, it’s all open. So you guys really put thought into whether or not she reaches for her wallet or tries to pay? I always feel awkward at that. I do a fake move for the purse, but never insist on paying if they say no.
Paul, I should clarify with that guy, he doesn’t always pay.
Even if I ask a guy out, I don’t like to pay. Regardless of who does the asking, gender roles still apply. A guy I dated last year insisted I asked him out, when really he did. Luckily, there was no question about him paying or not. He just did.
Teenwolf is dead.
Jason. Really? Still calling me desperate for online dating. I thought we were past that.
July 26th, 2010 at 3:54 pm
I’m just messin’ with ya,
July 26th, 2010 at 4:00 pm
sniff
July 26th, 2010 at 4:03 pm
And what’s with this insistence on gender roles anyway? That’s so typical. You ladies want “equality” except when it comes to the stuff that gives you an advantage. If you are asking me out, then you should be prepared to pay for it. Otherwise, you’re essentially asking me to spend money on you. How is that fair?
July 26th, 2010 at 4:04 pm
And it wouldn’t kill you to open the door for me, once and awhile, either.
July 26th, 2010 at 4:04 pm
Good point. How about this: If I’m ever going to ask a man out, it would be for drinks. I wouldn’t ask a guy out for dinner on the first date, and I never have to ask guys out for dinner after the first date because they always fall in love with men.
July 26th, 2010 at 4:05 pm
And Canadian girls open the door for everyone.
July 26th, 2010 at 4:09 pm
Okay, drinks are good because it’s not as expensive as a full dinner and a movie (in which case, if you ask me, and then expect me to pay for all of it, then I expect at least a little mackin’ action by the end of the night, that’s only fair). Plus, if you’re having a good time talking while drinking, you can go split it a bit. Not like “dutch,” but say you insist on paying for the first round, because you asked me, but then as the night goes on, I’ll jump in and pay for the next round, and so on.
July 26th, 2010 at 4:11 pm
Ok, that sounds fair. I’d make out with you if you bought me dinner and a movie for sure.
July 26th, 2010 at 6:01 pm
PSSST Jason…
Ask for the kiss upfront…then if she delivers, buy her dinner according to how good it was:
Shitty sloppy makeout = barf
Ok makeout = mcdonalds
Great makeout = Milestone’s
Amazing Makeout = Auberge du Pommier or Centro
Makes you “go” in your pants makeout = fly her to italy for dinner
July 26th, 2010 at 6:35 pm
PSSST Paul…
I don’t need your advice, asshole.
July 26th, 2010 at 7:04 pm
Yes I’m an asshole - what else is new :)
and that’s bloody good advice there mate…and it’s semi-funny as well.
Cheers
July 26th, 2010 at 8:11 pm
Hmm , spirited debate:)
Two thoughts..
Good date vs. good man is a strawman choice and there’s no reason to compromise. Never settle.
For the paying thing I think that J.R. has it right. When asked out by a girl I offer, but agree that it is her that should pay. I’ve never really encountered a girl who didn’t tell me to put the wallet away. I think Canadian girls are definitely above average in that department.
Paul,
Would have to disagree with parts of your restaurant list. I wouldn’t feed McDonalds to my dog, much less a girl who managed an ok makeout. I think you’re almost better off just paying her cab home right then and there. And Milestone’s is.. in the words of an earlier post by Darcie, very 905. I’d suggest replacing ok makeout with Gio Rana’s Really Really Nice Restaurant or Trevor, and great make out with Joso’s, Nyood or Lee, and so on.. After that I think you’re off to the races.
cheers
July 26th, 2010 at 9:45 pm
lol ok - I admit, those choices are preferable :)
July 26th, 2010 at 11:25 pm
@Darcie: Yes, whether a woman ever offers to pay does matter. It’s not something I’m necessarily taking notes on it immediately, like I said I always go in expecting to pay, but I mean if it’s been a few steady dates (like 4 or 5) and we’re clearly enjoying each other’s company, and yet she has never made any effort to reciprocate, that’s definitely a sign of how she will likely behave if we’re in a committed relationship, so I’m going to take that into consideration before I continue. It’s like you said how you imagine being married to a man when you meet him, well we have to think of the future too. Or like you said in another old blog, complaining about men who don’t pay on dates. You said it isn’t always necessary for him to pay in order to get a 2nd date, but if the man has 2 other strikes against him, then him not paying could be the 3rd strike that makes you decide not to go out again. That’s how I look @ it with women.
See, I don’t really mind playing by the traditional gender roles when it comes to dating. But the key is, I just want to be appreciated for my efforts. I’ll pick you up and take you to dinner (I’m not much for dates that are just meeting someplace to have drinks, like I said it seems more like just “hanging out” than an actual date). I’ll open the doors and grab your coat, etc. When we’re in a relationship I’ll go to the chick flicks with you, if you want, and on Valentine’s Day and Anniversaries, I’ll be sure to have the big batch of flowers and candy sent to your office, so all of your female co-workers can see it and be jealous, and all that typical stuff. But only if I’m with a woman whom I know doesn’t just take me for granted, and assumes that I *have* to do this stuff. And that’s where her offering to pay sometimes (even if 9 times out of 10 I won’t let her) comes in as an indicator of what kind of person she is.
And, y’know, I’ve dated my share of starving artists, struggling students, women who are just working temp jobs while looking for something permanent in another field, etc, I don’t know the situation up there in Canadaland, but we’ve got a pretty bad recession going on here in America, so I understand if I’m with someone who really has to watch her budget. But there are other ways to reciprocate. If I’ve taken her out a few times and she wants to invite me over for a nice home-cooked meal, that’s great (remember, when I asked if you can cook? It may be a cliche, but a way to a man’s heart really is through his stomach). Or, heck, if she just want to get a movie on Netflix, and order in a pizza or some Chinese food for us while we sit on her couch and watch it together, that’s nice too.
Or, to make a long story short (too late, I know), I’ll put thise into terms that I know we all can relate to: Remember the old SEINFELD episode where they all went to an Opera? Susan had to cancel, so George was stuck with an extra ticket, and when Jerry asked him if she offered to reimburse him for it, George said no.
George (frustrated): You know, we when got out to dinner, she doesn’t even reach for the check. That’s all I’m asking for, just a reach.
Jerry (nodding in agreement): It’s nice to get a reach.
July 27th, 2010 at 4:46 am
Good man = compatible values
Good dater = compatible social skills
You don’t need to choose between them. Find an Omega Man who has both, as Paul said, although I would tweak one thing. Your Omega Man doesn’t need to conquer countries. He just needs to slay your dragons for you. That’s what I do for my wife. She helps me by remembering where the heck I put my armor & sword, because I’m liable to be absent minded about that.
July 27th, 2010 at 9:48 am
Milestones Paul? Really? Milestones? That’s a place girls go with other girls to have belinis.
@JR, you’d be a good date. I can’t cook though, so I guess you and I aren’t a match.
Overseer, that’s an amazing summary of what I was saying. I hope I can find both those in the same man.
July 27th, 2010 at 9:57 am
That is why he is the overseer…he doesn’t even need
a crystal ball or a Palantir…he just ….knows.
*Note, Belini = instant diabetes drink
Lol Yup, Milestone’s…there’s advantages to being the only
guy in a room full of women drinking sugary drinks laced
with alcohol…assuming that the guy is drinking a beer of course :)
July 27th, 2010 at 10:59 am
Darcie can’t cook? But you grew up on a farm! I figured you were used to doing stuff like grabbin’ chickens, chopping of the heads, and then frying ‘em up.
July 27th, 2010 at 12:57 pm
wow. . .I go away for a while and look at the tripe you come up with
July 27th, 2010 at 12:58 pm
Should’nt you be cureing cancer or somethin’
July 27th, 2010 at 2:26 pm
I did all the farm stuff growing up…except I didn’t cook the chickens after I killed them. My mom is actually a really bad cook. I grew up on Shake N’ Bake.
Well Brownstar, maybe you shouldn’t leave.
July 27th, 2010 at 2:48 pm
Being miss fitness I would have guessed that you cook all the time, making all sorts of healthy meals. I figured your refrigerator was full of parsley, tofu and protein shakes.
And, yes, Brownstar can leave. We’ve got Paul here to fill-up the Moron Quota on Fitdarcie.com Don’t need another one.
July 27th, 2010 at 4:32 pm
>And, yes, Brownstar can leave. We’ve got Paul here to fill-up the Moron Quota on Fitdarcie.com Don’t >need another one.
Give us some kisses - I love you too Jason Derulo!
July 28th, 2010 at 8:43 am
I can cook up a plain chicken breast with steamed broccoli.
I don’t like to cook because I know that for things to taste delicious, they need bad ingredients. I’d rather be blissfully unaware of the bad ingredients.
Why do we not like Brownstar?
July 28th, 2010 at 8:58 am
Hey, plain breast chicken with steamed broccoli sounds good to me. I’m not asking for a gourmet meal. I’m a stereotypical man, when it comes to cooking, I’d starve to death without my microwave oven. So pretty much anything that’s made naturally would be a treat for me.
I recognize the name “Brownstar” from earlier comments, but don’t recall having any impression of him. I think the point was that if he’s just going to show up to criticize the post, calling it “tripe” when I think it’s actually a pretty good topic, then he might as well not even comment.
July 28th, 2010 at 12:17 pm
ummm…..
July 28th, 2010 at 12:18 pm
Naw, forget it. . .I was gonna say. . . .
July 28th, 2010 at 12:18 pm
but y’know whatever. . .
July 28th, 2010 at 12:22 pm
What? What kind of comment is that?
July 28th, 2010 at 12:30 pm
it’s just that. . .this all seems a little contrived. . .y’know like your on e-Haramony to “seemingly” get more material for your blog. .just sayin’. . .thoughts?. . .
July 28th, 2010 at 12:53 pm
I don’t do things for the purpose of this blog. The blog exists because my life if full of stories and I need to vent them. I’m not saying I’ve never acted with intention of writing about stuff, but I don’t make a habit of it. That’s actually why I cut it down to 3 posts a week rather than 5. That way I don’t force myself to write things…or do things just so I can write about them.
July 28th, 2010 at 1:19 pm
Oh, Jesus. Yeah, Darcie spent $120 to sign up to eHarmony just so she could have something to blog about. That makes total sense to me.
August 3rd, 2010 at 2:44 pm
I do not think that dating etiquette is necessarily acquired through experience. A person who generally treats people right will treat a woman the way she is supposed to be treated. Certain serial daters - Dan Draper for instance - are a*holes and know exactly what buttons to push in order to get what they want. A truly great date may have a completely different type of man pushing all the right buttons but not necessarily with the same intent. Granted in the long run most men have one intent, but that needn’t be the same night as a first, second or third date for that matter.
In any case, we have all heard the old adage about what happens with nice guys anyway. BUT that does not discourage me from continuing to treat women with all the respect my mother taught me that I should.
August 5th, 2010 at 12:39 pm
I agree, some people are brought up on it, but it can be learned through trial and error too. I also think that men that have a lot of girl friends tend to learn more about women want. Women talk about this stuff all the time and we learn through each other that way. Men only talk about sports so they know nothing about relationships.
August 22nd, 2010 at 4:24 pm
Somehow I am guessing that you didn’t even follow up with The Good Date or The Good Guy. As being someone out there dating it is hard to be those both those guys when the fickle women of Toronto don’t even try to meet you part way.
August 22nd, 2010 at 9:12 pm
@Mike, the unfortunate consequence of the sheer number of dates
and things that women try is that they become “professional daters”
just like a super nerd buys a computer based on tech specs alone -
rejecting 99% of everything that doesn’t meet their criteria within
10 seconds - Professional daters reject 99% of all men within 10 seconds
BUT … unlike super nerds…if you can excite their emotions, all the above
finicky,fussy,persnickety behaviour goes out the window.
Thus giving the average man a window of opportunity to a woman way out of
his league :)
August 23rd, 2010 at 10:00 am
Mike, I addressed your comment in today’s post. I did go on a second date with the “good guy”, but he smothered me with baby and marriage talk. I was also not attracted to him. The “good date” loves the area of town that I hate. I hate it because it’s snobby an pretentious. He loves it because it’s snobby and pretentious. We were not a match.
Paul, I agree with you in a way. We reject men that we don’t feel chemistry with. All the things we dump guys over that seem finiky and fickle don’t matter in the least when we are actually interested in someone.
August 23rd, 2010 at 3:23 pm
>Paul, I agree with you in a way. We reject men that we don’t feel chemistry with. All the things we >dump guys over that seem finiky and fickle don’t matter in the least when we are actually interested >in someone.
+1
No chemistry -> quirks and imperfections become more annoying, deal breakers etc.
chemistry -> quirks and imperfections become more likable
That is why if you are an overweight, balding, bad personality,
no money guy, then you should meet a girl in an elevator that
is racing to its doom but then stops just before everyone dies